Ordering SOGEA (as a migration) where FTTP is available?

[Optical Weetabix]

I've a SOGEA (FTTC) service at the moment. Openreach FTTP has recently become available - however because of specific issues about the location, installation of FTTP at my property is not going to be a simple exercise.

As a quick explaination - I strongly suspect that instead of the pretty convoluted path the copper wire currently takes, FTTP would instead involve flying a wire over neighbours back gardens, and one neighbour in particular would likely not be happy about this.

(I know this as there is already a flying copper wire over their garden feeding another neighbour, about which they were not best pleased when it was installed years ago before I lived here, and they remain irked by it!)

I suspect this neighbour who would likely disapprove might not be there for that much longer, but in the meantime I'm in no enormous rush to get FTTP and my existing SOGEA (FTTC) service down the old copper wire works well enough for now.

However it looks like all the ISPs now default to offering FTTP since it's become available in my area. When my contract is up with my current ISP, I imagine they'd have a renewal/retention offer staying on SOGEA, but I might like to switch to another ISP - one possibility being an ISP that offers short-term contracts, e.g. Freeola.

So basically my question is this... if I want to migrate my SOGEA service to another provider, am I looking at those more specialist ISPs? (I wonder if @Freeola would be able to do this?)

 

[Jennifer90s]

I've a SOGEA (FTTC) service at the moment. Openreach FTTP has recently become available - however because of specific issues about the location, installation of FTTP at my property is not going to be a simple exercise.

As a quick explaination - I strongly suspect that instead of the pretty convoluted path the copper wire currently takes, FTTP would instead involve flying a wire over neighbours back gardens, and one neighbour in particular would likely not be happy about this.

(I know this as there is already a flying copper wire over their garden feeding another neighbour, about which they were not best pleased when it was installed years ago before I lived here, and they remain irked by it!)

I suspect this neighbour who would likely disapprove might not be there for that much longer, but in the meantime I'm in no enormous rush to get FTTP and my existing SOGEA (FTTC) service down the old copper wire works well enough for now.

However it looks like all the ISPs now default to offering FTTP since it's become available in my area. When my contract is up with my current ISP, I imagine they'd have a renewal/retention offer staying on SOGEA, but I might like to switch to another ISP - one possibility being an ISP that offers short-term contracts, e.g. Freeola.

So basically my question is this... if I want to migrate my SOGEA service to another provider, am I looking at those more specialist ISPs? (I wonder if @Freeola would be able to do this?)

unlikely due to stop sell rules, you'll get an offer for full fibre whereby they romote a slightly cheaper price and a much faster speed. the 'golden carrot' of 'more for less!?'. When my G.Fast came up for renewal (which is why im in a right 'ol debacle) BT outpriced it at silly money per month. (like £70 a month for it rising to £73 then potentially £76) - moving down to VDSL didn't save me much either. Retentions didn't give me any deals so I left. given at the time ISP's were short on the ground for VDSL, I wasn't planning on a specialist ISP as I needed to bridge the gap due to ongoing talks with building management to get full fibre over the line. Vodafone ws then £34 a month which price wise is much more respectable. However no one was offering SOGFAST except them specialist ISP's for almost similar cost as BT.

I suspect you will have to start looking at specialist ISP's if you really want SOGEA. or just bite the bullet and see how OR plan to route said fibre. it might come in a different route. Ultimately a neighbor should not be able to stop you having it though.

 

[plunet]

Perhaps it's time to have a chat to the neighbour and just let them know that you're at the end of your contract, and when you place the order for a replacement service it is going to be FTTP and there's nothing you can do about it. You're aware that they were irked by another overhead cable, but as soon as you and other neighbours come to renew their services there will be other new FTTP cables being run.

You and your supplier have the right in law to have fly over rights for a telecommunications cable, so it's probably best to face this head on rather than kick the can down the road.

 

[davegr]

I've a SOGEA (FTTC) service at the moment. Openreach FTTP has recently become available - however because of specific issues about the location, installation of FTTP at my property is not going to be a simple exercise.

As a quick explaination - I strongly suspect that instead of the pretty convoluted path the copper wire currently takes, FTTP would instead involve flying a wire over neighbours back gardens, and one neighbour in particular would likely not be happy about this.

(I know this as there is already a flying copper wire over their garden feeding another neighbour, about which they were not best pleased when it was installed years ago before I lived here, and they remain irked by it!)

I suspect this neighbour who would likely disapprove might not be there for that much longer, but in the meantime I'm in no enormous rush to get FTTP and my existing SOGEA (FTTC) service down the old copper wire works well enough for now.

However it looks like all the ISPs now default to offering FTTP since it's become available in my area. When my contract is up with my current ISP, I imagine they'd have a renewal/retention offer staying on SOGEA, but I might like to switch to another ISP - one possibility being an ISP that offers short-term contracts, e.g. Freeola.

So basically my question is this... if I want to migrate my SOGEA service to another provider, am I looking at those more specialist ISPs? (I wonder if @Freeola would be able to do this?)

I don’t know why you would care about a neighbour who is bothered by something so inconsequential. Something tells me that the neighbour wouldn’t give it a second thought if it was the other way around.

Then again, I might feel this way due to the multiple crazy neighbours I’ve had to deal with!

 

[mwarby]

I don’t know why you would care about a neighbour who is bothered by something so inconsequential. Something tells me that the neighbour wouldn’t give it a second thought if it was the other way around.

Then again, I might feel this way due to the multiple crazy neighbours I’ve had to deal with!

Indeed I think it's tough luck for the neighbour, it would be chaos if BT had to obtain permission from every garden their cables pass over. I doubt anyone particularly wants a cable over their garden, and would sooner it was underground, but I don't see BT spending the money to do that

 

[plunet]

Indeed I think it's tough luck for the neighbour, it would be chaos if BT had to obtain permission from every garden their cables pass over. I doubt anyone particularly wants a cable over their garden, and would sooner it was underground, but I don't see BT spending the money to do that

Exactly, whilst irksome gent at number 12 is uppity about overhead wires, you haven't seen anything yet when Mavis at number 14 gets to hear that Busby wants to dig up her geraniums to do an underground run.

 

[i.h]

My interpretation of the stop sell rules is that it would be possible to change ISPs, but you would be required to downgrade to 40/10 as part of that. If your line is already at that speed then this might be rather painless, though you'd almost certainly have to go with a smaller ISP who can say the magic words to Openreach.

Like others have said, it might be worth going through the aggro sooner rather than later, especially if you're a home owner who intends to be there for the long term.

Overall it's a bit of a gap that Openreach haven't really thought through. Your neighbour is a bit of a niche example but there will be plenty more examples of people who rent and can't get landlord permission.

edit: are you actually in a stop sell area? If not then you can do anything you want. Not all FTTP enabled properties will be in a stop sell area as this is something Openreach declares when the exchange area has reached at least 75% coverage

 

[Optical Weetabix]

I don’t know why you would care about a neighbour who is bothered by something so inconsequential. Something tells me that the neighbour wouldn’t give it a second thought if it was the other way around.
[...]

Because I value neighbourliness. The neighbour is in the sunset of their life and has lived in the house almost all their existence, and it's of consequence to them. In contrast I am very much a newcomer to the neighbourhood.
(Also, I think your supposition in the second sentence is wrong in this case.)

[...]
You and your supplier have the right in law to have fly over rights for a telecommunications cable, so it's probably best to face this head on rather than kick the can down the road.

[...]
Like others have said, it might be worth going through the aggro sooner rather than later, especially if you're a home owner who intends to be there for the long term.
[...]

Without wishing to appear insensitive, I wouldn't expect the neighbour to be about for a lot longer. So I don't have a particular issue with kicking the can down the road a little to sidestep the bother it might otherwise bring (to both the neighbour and to myself!).

As an aside, I've just asked Freeola via their webchat facility whether it's possible to migrate a SOGEA service to them where FTTP is available and the answer is no. I dare say my best option for keeping SOGEA would likely be to re-contract with my existing ISP (their out of contract prices are not favourable!). Anyway, it's not an imminent issue - I was just doing a bit of looking ahead.

 

[Disgruntled of Dankshire]

I've a SOGEA (FTTC) service at the moment. Openreach FTTP has recently become available - however because of specific issues about the location, installation of FTTP at my property is not going to be a simple exercise.

As a quick explaination - I strongly suspect that instead of the pretty convoluted path the copper wire currently takes, FTTP would instead involve flying a wire over neighbours back gardens, and one neighbour in particular would likely not be happy about this.

(I know this as there is already a flying copper wire over their garden feeding another neighbour, about which they were not best pleased when it was installed years ago before I lived here, and they remain irked by it!)

I suspect this neighbour who would likely disapprove might not be there for that much longer, but in the meantime I'm in no enormous rush to get FTTP and my existing SOGEA (FTTC) service down the old copper wire works well enough for now.

However it looks like all the ISPs now default to offering FTTP since it's become available in my area. When my contract is up with my current ISP, I imagine they'd have a renewal/retention offer staying on SOGEA, but I might like to switch to another ISP - one possibility being an ISP that offers short-term contracts, e.g. Freeola.

So basically my question is this... if I want to migrate my SOGEA service to another provider, am I looking at those more specialist ISPs? (I wonder if @Freeola would be able to do this?)

Just say the old line has problems and OR have to replace it with a new one. Ensure that OR take away the old one in the process. When mine was done, albeit underground, I asked if the copper wire was going to be removed, the OR subbie said they were not allowed to do this as it belonged to OR!

 

[Some Edinburgh Guy]

edit: are you actually in a stop sell area? If not then you can do anything you want. Not all FTTP enabled properties will be in a stop sell area as this is something Openreach declares when the exchange area has reached at least 75% coverage

Even if a property is not in a stop sell area, Openreach now pretty actively incentivises ISPs to move to FTTP when a property has access to it (even if it is not installed).

Indeed, a lot of ISPs now will just go "you have access to FTTP, so we're moving you to this", because there's cost savings to be made in this regard to move away before the stop sell arrives. Not to mention, moving to FTTP sooner means Openreach can work on its various other projects, such as the decommissioning of unused or low utilisation VDSL cabinets, copper line recovery and exchange exit.

In regard of VDSL cabinets, these cost thousands in electric bills for Openreach, and those costs are obviously way higher today than they were 5-10 years ago when a load of these cabinets were put in place for the original "Superfast Broadband" rollouts. As a consequence, Openreach does have incentive to reduce its VDSL cabinet footprint wherever it can and not just have people staying on 40/10 SOGEA services forever, as these will provide massive cost savings by not having to power cabinets that aren't getting much -- or any -- use.

 

[mwarby]

Most large ISPs will be on deals with Openreach/BTW, these deals require them to have a certain percentage of properties which have FTTP available installed, to secure continued duscounts. This is all part of BTs wider desire to shut down the copper network as much as possible.

So yes the ISPs could order FTTC, but are dissuaded from doing so, and many frontline staff won't be able to override the ordering system, which will be set to prefer FTTP

 

[Some Edinburgh Guy]

Most large ISPs will be on deals with Openreach/BTW, these deals require them to have a certain percentage of properties which have FTTP available installed, to secure continued duscounts. This is all part of BTs wider desire to shut down the copper network as much as possible.

So yes the ISPs could order FTTC, but are dissuaded from doing so, and many frontline staff won't be able to override the ordering system, which will be set to prefer FTTP

Pretty much yeah. I don't think BT / Openreach can fully shut down copper yet, but if they can get it right down to like (for example) 5-10% of properties that are still served by copper connections (even if its just SOGEA), they can progress with the other projects I mentioned above (while VDSL cabinet decommissioning is obviously not happening right now, don't be surprised to see that starting up within the next few years, especially when exchange areas reach 100% FTTP availability).

I think Openreach has a goal of reaching 25 million homes and businesses by the end of this year. I'm not sure how close they are to that target, but assuming they hit it, that would take them to about 80% coverage [using an estimate that there are 31 million homes in the UK]. That would leave them 20% still not being served by FTTP connections from Openreach, but the hope would be that a good 80% of that 20% have access to FTTP, who are just not set up with it yet.

 

[Optical Weetabix]

Just to update this, I migrated my SOGEA service over to @aquiss who are happy to continue providing it (at least for the time being).

Aquiss were very responsive to my queries. The crucial factor is that my exchange is not yet classified as FTTP Priority - once it is, then Aquiss would no longer be able to order or migrate a SOGEA service.

My previous ISP was Onestream (I'd originally signed up for a cheap one-year long deal thinking fibre was coming, as indeed it subsequently has) - coming up to the end of my contract they were offering what seemed like a good value two-year retention deal on the SOGEA service, however I wasn't entirely convinced they wouldn't suddenly start pushing for a mid-contract upgrade to FTTP (given the incentives offered by Openreach to ISPs for getting end users over to fibre).

Obviously FTTP is inevitable, but I'd prefer to have some say in the timing of when it gets installed. Plus, whilst my FTTC service over copper has been solid and without issue, should it develop a fault I'd prefer to deal with Aquiss rather than Onestream from a CS point of view!

Anyway, can successfully kicked down the road for a little longer...!

 

[MissTuned]

Indeed I think it's tough luck for the neighbour, it would be chaos if BT had to obtain permission from every garden their cables pass over. I doubt anyone particularly wants a cable over their garden, and would sooner it was underground, but I don't see BT spending the money to do that

In my little cluster of houses, I'm the one that has the pole at the end of the drive and various wires and fibres running over my drive and front garden. A neighbour had some sort of FTTP installed the other week over my drive (I think YouFibre based on a little sign that was attached to the pole) and it doesn't bother me in the slightest, it's high above me and the pole and wires were here long before I was.

OP is depriving themselves of faster and better internet, probably paying more, and for what - to placate a crotchety old man who doesn't like a wire, for the couple of hours it takes to put in FTTP? I wouldn't.

 

[TottenhamSomeFibre]

In my little cluster of houses, I'm the one that has the pole at the end of the drive and various wires and fibres running over my drive and front garden. A neighbour had some sort of FTTP installed the other week over my drive (I think YouFibre based on a little sign that was attached to the pole) and it doesn't bother me in the slightest, it's high above me and the pole and wires were here long before I was.

OP is depriving themselves of faster and better internet, probably paying more, and for what - to placate a crotchety old man who doesn't like a wire, for the couple of hours it takes to put in FTTP? I wouldn't.

Not even speed. fttp is more stable than FTTC the OPs literally paying more for less stability

 

[Pheasant]

If the OP is happy, so be it.

 

[i.h]

Not even speed. fttp is more stable than FTTC the OPs literally paying more for less stability

It *can* be more stable. I resisted getting (Openreach) FTTP for a while due to being in a rental property. I have it now, and I happen to have an FTTC line at the same address with the same ISP.

Both are rock solid - uptimes measured in weeks (or whenever the router reboots or there's network maintenance). The FTTP line is a couple of milliseconds lower on latency and is of course a lot faster, but it's not got the same "wow factor" as when I finally upgraded from dialup to ADSL (rural exchange, got it later than anyone else I knew)

The FTTC line that my FTTP replaced (I had two) was worse, but that was likely because it was on an ECI cabinet compared to Huawei for the second

 

[mwarby]

Not even speed. fttp is more stable than FTTC the OPs literally paying more for less stability

I think the OP is paying a bit extra for an easy life, or at least to kick a difficult conversation down the road